DIRECTORY YOU CAN ALWAYS GO TO http://www.wiredbrain.net/directory.htm. If you have the URL in a window use arrows to get back to http://metro.trunpike.net/~pflaump (or emporium.turnpike.net/~pflaump ) for open INDEX page. Subject: SPQR and other antediluvian beliefs and methods: For several centuries the emperors of the Roman Empire ruled in the name of the Senate and people (tribunes) of Rome. [SPQR] Ancient peoples painted weaving patterns on clay pots - old habits die hard. The first cars had places to keep your buggy whip, I think in anthropology these carry-overs are called vestige artifact, or the lecture method, Universities and the public school system. INTERACTIVE systems can be MORE responsive than the ancient lecture method. The "talk at them" system was no longer necessary with the development of moving type, printing and telecommunications. The reason for the lecture is social and political not educational. The position of professor - teacher is based on political or social power; not instructional efficiency. As the social and political power of all institutions decline - and the position of teachers has declined even faster.. and the power grab by the "administration" has contributed to the low position of teachers at all levels of schooling . Since the mystic of the "grand" position of teachers at all levels has disappeared and is gone with the winds of change the need for him/her to talk at large groups of "students" is also bolted. The idea that "education" is a process of go and listen and learn and then you "know" the subject has not been true since the 14th century. Knowledge is not something put into the student by the professor. What I learned was to learn, some ancient wisdom is constant as Plank's; other contents only prevent me from seeing the world as it is. A Teacher can only teach what a student will allow himself to learn. The techniques of learning come first. THOSE WHO STUDY THE TECHNIQUES OF LEARNING ARE STUDENTS. YOUR TEACHER CAN ADVISE A STUDENT BY WORDS, THE EXAMPLE OF DEEDS, OR BY BAKING BREAD. The Nurbakshi writing on teachership, Idries Shah: Thinkers of the East This is not an either/or sitution. Enrichment is the right word. There are, naturally, great lectures. Small classes can be very interactive and enriched. You only get out what you put in. This topic is about TEACHING and LEARNING; Students are workers not the raw material in the educational system. The role of teacher is leadership. Active learningrequires a moral learning community not the old factory model. (Charles Handy, (6)) Do Universities Care about Teaching ? The centennial of the Carnegie Unit Credit: About 100 years ago(1890) the Commission of Higher Education known as the Carnegie group under the leadership of President Elliot of Harvard set standards for college admissions and for transfer of credit from one college to another. Until then High Schools or Academies had a wide mixture of Agricultural and Machine Trades, Grammar school subjects, (from the English Public Schools auspiciously Ruskin's program at Harrow ?), secretarial skills (a male occupation at the time) bookkeeping, surveying and other practical matters suited to a practical nation. The system set forth 100 years ago has remained strangely unchanged. The reason we teach the geometry, algebra, Shakespeare, most of the classes now offered in most High Schools follows from decisions made in the 1890's. These same subjects appear on the college boards. Textbooks are written, teacher trained, and schools organized in this 19th century pattern. Colleges offer 45 hr semester, 36 hour quarter classes as if contact hours had anything to do with learning. College curriculum have grown as the result of log rolling by graduate department to keep staff employed and recruit students. None of it makes much sense to the people doing it or the student taking it. The University of Chicago, in 1930's tried to establish a self governing college with an Aristotelian program. My mother was among the first of the graduates and I was among the last. One of the values of this program, and there were many, it made intelectual sense. St. John's MD and NM, Reed College, New College now part of Univ. of South Florida, and to some extent all the small quality colleges (Sarah Lawrence, Oberlin, Antioch, Bennington, Beloit, Carlton, BrynMar, and others ) have integration in their liberal arts program. The Univ of Wisconsin, Green Bay had a problem in society system - all subjects could relate to say environmental issues (social science and government, economics and science). Being serious about teaching is being serious about the structure of the curriculum. The use of external examination is much better than the credit unit. A thread running through much of the literature concerns belief that all children can learn -- the varying factor is time. Some students require a longer period to master the same tasks. The quality of DE and it's educational quality is not the core issue but political power and tradition. Adult and continuing education have always been the weak sister - The issue is CERTIFICATION and status. If we could get a DE from Harvard et al and if there were a national testing system - like for accountants, doctors or the Bar exam DE would be great. I wonder if Apple or MS University would do ? The interaction is between students and tutors - between learning and those who have been gone on this path before - guides - all learning is apprenticeship - Personal inter-activity is now demonstrated by BBS and systems like IMAGINATION network from AT&T Help is only a mouse-click away - be yourself or anyone else it says - new friend and new ideas - The world of learning CD-ROM and on line. Political and social power always outlives its true function - like nobles and kings - SPQR the title remains but the action has moved elsewhere. The public schools, the establishment of the universities - the certificates have declined and the Grishom was - bad money drives out good - High school means nothing (can't do at the 5th grade level) colleges are full of nonsense - (some good and some stupid) One real quality DE system could give it all a real run for the money. The Mind extension idea with a real evaluation and interactive system. There is light at the end of the dark hole which is the schools of education, public school bureaucracy, University administration, and unions, etc. Peter The Distance Education DEOS-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU@SMTP@FIR`County: Tel Subject: Commentary: Ehrmann's essay and Brenzel's comments From: "Ormsby Lowry Harold-CELE"